...to Take the Pledge, to Support the Arts, to Vote, and More!
 Len Rogers, up close and personal! |
Len stated about his activism work, "I had a very strong push in my upbringing, where it wasn't a benefit to be involved; it was a responsibility. My mother pushed that real hard. And, I'm glad she did, because I think that's a rewarding thing to be involved in your world and to try to make a difference when you can; or at least try to make people aware. I don't know that I made any differences, but hopefully I at least opened the door. The artists are glad for the resources, and I know some people have found the art, and that's a difference, and I think that's good; but I don't think that anything I've done has changed society or anything like that. I think it's just opened up some opportunities. And that's enough. The last interview I did was in a publication out West. They were like, 'What was the most rewarding experience you ever had? Is there one?'... and I was like, 'Yeah, but it actually doesn't relate to the art promotion.' It relates to a young gentleman who I've never been given permission to use his name, so I won't... but he lives in Minnesota. He used the StoneWall Socety website to come out to his parents, and the alternative was suicide if didn't go well. His mother wrote to me, and thanked me for making that resource, because not only did her son stay alive, but she knew something about him now that she didn't know before... and was able to support him in a way. Because, she was a staunch Christian, and had he just said, 'I'm gay', she would have gone to what she saw as a horrible thing-- the stereotypical images that you see: the endangerment, the self-destructive behavior, etc. He had her looking at StoneWall and was showing her the artists and the achievements of these people and the historical sections. Once she got to that point, she was like, 'OK, I never realized this was like this.', and he was like, 'Good, Mom, because I'm one of these people.' He had already purchased illegal drugs to do himself in with, and if it had been a negative reaction, that's what he was gonna do. I don't know if I'll ever be able to top the feeling that came with that letter. When I get real de-motivated, I haul it out and read it. Actually, I have it printed and hung it on my wall. If you do anything in life, if you can touch one person, then you have to understand that that's enough. That doesn't mean that you quit, but you don't have to look anymore for that verification, I don't think. I had no clue that the site would ever go there, or that it would even be used that way. I think the young man was really bright in how he approached his parents, and being so understanding of what they were going to do... and he knew them so well that he actually researched a way, and then chose Stonewall to do it. Wow! If that was an award, that would probably be the one that was highest on the shelf." In addition to activism, the other great love in Len Rogers' life is his partner of 27 years, Chris. Len says of his petit ami, "Chris is the greatest gift I've got. I have his love, support, understanding, and direction. He is my grounding influence, my peace of mind... People said 'There's no way it's going to work!', because I'm an Aries and he is a Capricorn!" In his spare time, this Aries' Aries enjoys reading, drawing, music, visual art, and spending time with Chris and their unique family: which includes Len's best friend Joe (AKA Mountman), a renewed family member of 29 years named Mike, two dogs, a lynx (a cousin of the bobcat), a cockatiel, an aquarium, and a garden of flora transplanted from Louisiana to West Virginia. In an up close and personal interview, Len and I spoke about The StoneWall Society, Rainbow World Radio, the state of gay politics, artists to keep an eye out (or ear open) for, and-- most importantly-- how the average GLBTI citizen can get involved!
 Chris and Len at Mountain lake Hotel in 1980, where "Dirty Dancing" was filmed! |
LR: (Laughs) Thanks!
JR: You mentioned that you were involved with corporate politics, and that you were immersed in the business world. You decided to get out of it and devote yourself full-time to activism. What made you decide to make that transition? What was the motivating factor?
LR: I was in communications, which is a real rat race kind of area, number one; it's just totally bizarre. I had seen all these movies, and if somebody had ever told me "That's going to be you one day", I would have been like, "Nah!"... but literally, I was shaving and I looked in the mirror and I was like, "Who the hell is that?" and it wasn't something I liked. We were raising my nephew, which was the closest we'll have to a son, and he was making complaints at me: "You're always at work, you're never at home." and "I'd like you to go do this", and "God, you came home grouchy last night". It wasn't who I wanted to be, and the price tag that went with it-- which of course was the paycheck-- I realized wasn't justifying it, and they forced the issue by doing something that I was personally against to another employee. It was a political thing, and I said, "Well, you know what? That person can go, and here's my resignation, and I'm done with this." And I kind of just walked away from it. I had been an activist while I worked. That was one of the issues that they had; they didn't like that I was an out regional manager in communications, and they were just as likely to see me on the local TV about activism issues as they were about long distance. So, I was kind of like "the queer long distance guy" way back in the early '90's.
JR: And this was in Louisiana!
LR: Yes, the Deep South. Yep. It had its moments, but largely it was a pretty positive experience on that side. But corporate politics is not something I miss. Or corporate work-- just being in that environment. I don't mind the three piece suit thing. It's just that, you spend eight hours a day with someone and then you find out that you don't know them, or they're not trustworthy, or their agenda has nothing to do with their job but has more to do with some weird ego quirk; and they'll take $10,000 less a year less to get a particular title. It's just really bizarre, the motivation that people have in that arena.
JR: Yeah. And you find the activism now is definitely more rewarding, right?
LR: (Purposely hesitates) Yeah, most of the time! (Laughs). It has its moments. I get very frustrated-- you know, everybody's got opinions, and we all think whether or not this person or this group is doing a good job or a bad job. I get frustrated with "organized" queer political caucuses because I think sometimes their administrations are out of touch with what we, the regular community, would like to have. I get most of my satisfaction from dealing with smaller groups and individuals, and trying to show them how they can deal with things in their level; or by promoting the art thing; and dealing with the discrimination issue. With StoneWall, we do a decent amount of interface between bars, groups, sometimes housing-related issues. It's kind of a mediator; there's nobody that stands to it; it's just like "Look, these people feel like they're discriminated against. Do you want that?" If they are, then we go back and we're like, "Yeah, they are! So, get an attorney and do what you gotta do. But frequently, it's a miscommunication and we try to open communication levels for people along those lines.
JR: The StoneWall Society really demonstrates how art and politics really blend. StoneWall Society supports a lot of artists, but you also work on a political level. From what you're telling me, it's an "intimate" political level.
LR: Yeah. Locally, not so much. I do a website here called SaferCharlestonWV.com, which is about getting the street crime corrected. Charleston is not New York City (Laughs)! There is no reason to have some of the stuff that we have going on here! There's not enough people to justify the crime problems we have. Not that it's justified anywhere, but at least somewhere, in a larger metropolitan area, you can understand why it's happening. Here, it's just like "I'm not gonna look at that side of town because we eventually want to make that a business park... so, yeah, let it get nasty and nobody will go there and we'll have a good reason to let it go and build things up." So, sometimes it's not so personal. In the community, as in queer side of life, then yes, then it is more about people. Like, trying to find how to get immigration contacts to get their spouses into or out of the United States and get to go somewhere where they can live; or bars where people feel they're not welcome because they're lesbian or trangender. It all started because a bar in the French Quarter kicked me out. When I left corporate politics, I went straight on to the stage. The theatrical stage. Of course, on the corporate politics stage, there really is a lot in common. (Laughs) One of my comics acts was a drag schtick... and a bar actually refused me entrance because I was considered a drag queen. I wasn't in drag when I showed up at the door, but because I was known as one, they wouldn't let me in there. So, that's kind of how StoneWall Society was started. Sorry, I don't think I answered your question!
JR: Actually, it raises a whole bunch of other things. I didn't even know that you were a performer!
LR: I started performing in nineteen eighty.... Well, actually the first time was way back in college. I've always considered myself about 98% pork which is why I think I deal well with politics and corporations.
JR: Ninety-eight percent "quirk"?
LR: No, pork! P-O-R-K. Put a microphone in my hand and give me a spotlight and things just kinda happen. Sometimes that's good and sometimes it's not, but, yeah, I did that for a solid ten years, nine years of that full time. Either that was my job, or I was acting as Entertainment Coordinator for a bar in New Orleans and then later, a bar in Florida.
JR: Wow! I did not know that. Because, you've always been a supporter of the arts and of musicians. A lot of times, the people behind the scenes couldn't be entertainers themselves because it's almost like... well, with artists, egos get in the way. But of course, there are a few artists who are artists in their own right and also definitely espouse community. It seems like for you, your rewards come from seeing the results of your efforts reflected within the community, not through your own personal gain.
LR: I like the community side. The hammy standup! Give me a microphone... I mean, that's a really personal thing, and I just learn to channel that into this direction, and I have a lot of fun with it. As far as now, it's not that I haven't had any burning desires to run out and climb up on the stage. I don't know that I would do it as a drag character at this point, just from the standpoint that I don't know that I would need it. When you put on a mask and you do a character, it gives you a place to hide. If it was standup comedy-- and all these experiences that I talked about usually happened to me, and they were real, 'cause I think that's where comedy comes from-- I don't think I would need that crutch anymore. Even though, some of that stuff in the routines would die because it really just isn't funny; it's not funny seeing, for example, one of my routines where a friend or mine who was a really masculine lesbian and for Halloween one year, we put her in drag. Acting out a lesbian being in drag is not funny if you're not one yourself. (Laughs) But yeah, I like the community thing. I saw a lot of people when I was working trying to get booked and trying to get gigs and trying to get talent and indirectly, trying to get a place to share their talent. The whole experience of the bar thing... Like, drag queens get a bad rap. A lot of people say, "Drag queens get bookings!" I'm like, "Yeah, they don't get paid much either, or nothing at all." If you want to work for what they work for, I'm sure the guy will book you, but that's really what it's about. Bar owners look at the bar and they're like, "Why should I pay $100 when I can pay this drag queen over here this much less?" It doesn't matter because they're gonna get in there and ignore them and drink anyway." So that's what led me to the arts. And Dennis Hensley actually started that.
JR: Dennis Hensley?
LR: He was the first artist to actually submit music, and then a young lady by the name of Daryl was the first to submit poetry; Duane Simolke was the first to submit a book. Because I was looking at: Well, how about if we try to make a network of artists, because that could be a wonderfully creative thing... and I'm still, seven years later, trying that. It's really hard to get the poetry, the literature, and the performance arts, and the visual arts, and the music to all get together on the same box, so to speak.
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| Len as "Church Lady Cherrie Locke"... and as Carmen Phillips (right) with Florida Legend Billie Boots! (Some drag trivia: Billie Boots used to perform at Len's mom's club when he was about five years old. He remembers her ironing her dress and painting in his mom's kitchen. Bilie was the Queen Mother Of Florida and raised thousands for AIDS research. She was also a famous Phyllis Diller impersonator who had her make-up registered as a copywritten clown face. Len remembers, "Billie was a real trooper and a pro too. I was one of Billie's adopted kids. She used to embarrass the shit out of me onstage by telling stories about the 'old days' and my mom.") | |
LR: Oh, no.
JR: This was a gay bar?!
LR: I wasn't kicked out. I was refused admittance. I found out later that the real reason was because a real female was inside-- also a local comedienne-- and they felt that the two of us would clash and that there would be a problem. They used their old "no drag" law as a reason to keep me out of the bar, which didn't make it any better to me.
JR: Why would there be a "no drag" law anyway?
LR: Well, the bar has an upstairs section, which is notorious for lots of wildness going on, and women and drag queens didn't mesh with a bunch of guys up there with their pants off carrying on in the dark. And they frequently were geared towards particular genres of crowds. I don't know; it was an old, old thing... and I was particularly shocked in the '90's; I was really flabbergasted. I was like, "Wow!" If I had been in one of the really outrageous costumes that I did for a character "Cherrie Locke", who was also called "Church Lady", I could have understood that it was like, "OK, we don't want this Pentecostal-looking broad running through the bar; that's just not gonna work." I could have understood that on that ground. But since it was Len standing there, and I hadn't worked in four days, so the face was scruffy; you know, it's a character, not a lifestyle thing. I was really kind of surprised. And I knew the bar owners and everything. It was a political issue of they didn't want to offend the straight woman entertainer who was standing there at the bar.
JR: Hmmm... and the motivation behind your creation of The StoneWall Society was to tolerate differences within our own community.
LR: And not to be a hypocrite. I mean, if we want equality, we've gotta give it. When we started it, a lot of people were like, "Well, I don't think that hypocrisy exists in our community." I was like, "Well, I wanna move to where you live", because I've seen it: 'I'm not going in there because there's too many lesbians', or 'I'm not going in there; there's too many fags.'" I hear it all the time. And if you know a transgendered person, shame on you. And God forbid you say "bisexual"'. We're only mirroring what we were taught. We didn't have a teacher. Our community was born on the streets and grew up in a bar. We don't give ourselves any credit for that. It's hard to grow a community. All we've done is taken what society as a whole has given us-- black versus white versus Asian versus male verus female-- and taken it down on a smaller scale into our own community, which I think is a natural thing for people to do.
JR: We don't always espouse the same values that we like to preach to others. We say we want a more tolerant society, but we don't always do that to each other..
LR: Well, we're in a phase right now where Americans equate-- and have just as much-- plastic surgery as they do dental work. (Both laugh) That really does reflect outward, because you're setting these standards for yourself that just as a puny human without enhancements, you can't "reach". And that goes across he board in a really bad, bad way. I'm all for plastic surgery in certain areas, but it gets ridiculous after a while. It really hurts us socially, I think.
JR: For me, I think it's a conflict. The way I look at plastic surgery is like being in the closet. People should be proud of who they are, meaning they should be out of the closet or love themselves the way they look, but l respect someone's right to do what they choose... the right to privacy, I suppose, overrides your right to be locked in the closet or the right to be ugly. And that's a tough one for me!
LR: As an activist on an extreme level, it is certainly their right to do that. I don't have a problem there. I worry about when you place that as a primary concern. That's where you place the value of yourself. And I'm not talking about someone correcting their nose that's really bothered them their whole life. I think those are legitimate areas. But when you're going in for your fifth eye tuck, and you're only 38... I think that's bad! I don't think that's good for you as a person. It's your right to do it, certainly, but hopefully the medical professional that's doing this will talk to this person and be like, "Hey, wait a minute, maybe you're a little fixated on this issue, and should back away from it a little. 'Cause there's gonna come a time when gravity's gonna take over no matter how much surgery you have... and you're either gonna look like Michael Jackson or not. (Both laugh)
JR: I always say that, let's say that somebody is 60 and they get plastic surgery. It won't make them look 40. If they're lucky, it will make them an attractive 60-year old, or it will just make them look like a 60 year old that's had plastic surgery.
LR: And if they does make them look like a 40-year old, that 60-year old body is not going to be able to keep up.
JR: Ain't it the truth!
LR: I'm like, "Well, I don't know what you created there, but OK..."
JR: Now, you've supported so many artists in the past through StoneWall Society, and through OutVoice, and through the Pride in the Arts Festival. Do you ever get the chance to develop personal relationships or friendships with these artists? 'Cause, I know you live kind of "out there". Like, for me, living in New York City makes it a little bit easier. I support a lot of artists and write reviews and stuff, but there's only a select few that I can say I've taken that next step with: hanging out socially, going over their house for dinner, et cetera. Do you ever feel like you're missing out on that, or is it not important to you...?
LR: Oh, no. I'm definitely missing out on that. I'd love to be in that game. But at the same time, it's easier for me to do the support thing from a distance, because it's a support thing for the community and it doesn't get personal. And there I don't have to worry too much. Have I made friendships? Sure, either over the phone or via e-mail. But you can only interview people and e-mail and talk so many times before a bond kind of develops. So there are some friendships there, but I kind of have to watch and make sure that I don't do the same things that the rest of the industry does, which is play favorites.
JR: Yeah...
LR: It's really hard. Fortunately, though, the artists don't try to go there either. The ones that have become my friends understand that. There's never been a real issue there. Most of the artists are really professional, and they understand that we can't focus on one person every week. It just doesn't work that way. I try to make sure that everyone gets their turn there, you know? But then again, on things like the OutVoice Top 40 list, I have no control over. I count votes and it goes on. And not that I have anything against the artists, but I was so happy the month before last to see this big wave... a new wave of people coming in and bringing in some new talent, because gosh, for like nine months it was the exact same people on that list. And that is such a wonderful statement to those artists that their fans are that loyal and take that time every month to go vote for them. I know they get sick of hearing it, but I really do really do drill that into the artists: you've got to realize how important and what a powerful thing that is to you for marketing for an artist, that these people are devoted enough that they'll go to that. But then I get frustrated 'cause I want to see new blood come in. But yeah, there are friendships there, and I miss it when I hear about things like the Fresh Fruit Festival in New York, and different concerts that are going on, and I'm like, "Oh, I want to go see that!" and "I wish I was there to do that!", but then at the same time, it's like, when you get into that, you run the risk of-- and I don't mean this in an offensive way-- people thinking you're unapproachable. So, maybe it's better to be at a distance.
JR: Yeah. I know that jealousy can sometimes play a part. A lot of the artists are professional, but as a reviewer, I go out of my way to avoid showing partiality to some performers. I mean, there's some artists-- like Rubberlegs and Robert Urban and their new project RUB Band-- that I try to see every show they do because I legitimately love their music. I can never get tired of hearing them. And, I'm also friends with those guys; yet, I also go to see some artists even if I'm not crazy about their music-- but I'll go there strictly for support. Like, for the Pride in the Arts Festival, there was not one artist who got up on that stage who was below par. It was all great, great stuff, even if was not all my particular taste. There was nothing substandard. No amateurs. Not that I have something against amateurs, (Laughs) but...
LR: Well, I think you and I have something in common with how we approach reviews. You're kind enough to share them with StoneWall Society, and it's not just about me not having to do them all myself, trust me! (Laughs) But, you review, and that's one reason I like your work. It's a review. It's not like, "This is 'bad' music or 'good' music", but this is what it's about, and this is maybe where the influences came from..." and it lets people know "Hey, check this out, because this is what it's like". I don't critique, just because I don't feel comfortable with that. But I've had a few artists who are like, "You're review was two paragraphs longer for them than it was for me. Why?"...
JR: Oh, God...
LR: I'm like, "Because they had 14 songs and you had nine, maybe that's why..." or "They sent me 16 paintings to look at, and you sent me three". And that's interesting, because in each genre-- the artists, the musicians-- the artists sometimes don't realize that the music is one of five sectors of the art promotion. Or they say, "How come it takes you so long to get my book review up?" I'm like, "Well. I have to read the book!" (Laughs) That takes time. And, sometimes you have to remind them that there' music, and now film, and performing arts, and all these other things that I have to divide my attention to. We got a lot of grief the first two years when we first started, from people who thought I was trying to emulate or compete with Outmusic. I'm like, "No, we're not." As a matter of fact, I've always carried links to Outmusic on all my websites because I think it's a super resource for artists to use. But that's music. I'm also into literary guilds, and if I do that there, then why shouldn't it be the same thing with music? And, fortunately, over the years, people have seen that that's not what I'm about, and that's calmed down... but I actually thought about closing the music section for a while because it got nasty for a while. I was like, "OK, I'm just not into this! That's not what this is about for me!" If that resource is there, then no, I don't wish to duplicate it. So, now it seems to all come together and it's great, so I was glad to see that go away.
JR: If someone was to say to me, "StoneWall Society is competing with Outmusic", I would just say that there is lots of room for both... and more.
LR: People kept joining, so I kept it. I really don't know... There were a couple of key figures involved with that, and I don't know what their motivation was. I don't follow that very much. If the goal is to support art, I can't let myself get dragged off into those side things because I've also got the political thing going on that I do there, and it just doesn't work. When the BS starts, Len just kind of turns the microphone off. I know that's rude, but it's the only way I know how to deal with it. I don't want to encourage it, because I think that gossip thing that goes on in any community... that and apathy are our two worst enemies. So I try not to encourage either one. The bottom line is, opinions are like rear ends. We all have them, and to let yourself get upset over someone's opinion means that you bought into it and it's your world. If you learn by listening to other people's opinions and factoring that with in what you know, and seeing how that information is useful."
JR: How about the controversial opinion that female musicians are more prolific than the men, and that they are more motivated by their love of making music rather than financial gain?
LR: Do women artists do more than men? What's their motivation? To me, that's all opinion. I see both men and women busting their butts to try to get their music out there. Women have something men don't have. They have Women's Music Festivals. The festivals have nothing to do with us, they have to do with the feminist movement. These guys are like, "Well, you know, we can't have a Men's Music Festival." I'm like "Why not?" They say, "We'd be considered bigots". That's a testosterone issue. If you want to do it, I'll support it, as long as it's not done in a sexist manner. If you want to have a Men's Music Festival for men to get together and write songs that are pertinent to men, and learn, and share, and do it the way the Women's Fests are run, I'll support that. If you're gonna do it from the standpoint of 'No Women Allowed!', then I'm not going to support that, just as I don't support the Women's Festivals that come at me that way. There's nothing wrong with getting together with one group and working and doing it from that motivation, but if that motivation is keeping the other group out, then I don't want any part of that So, women have that edge, but to say that men are going after the money, or whatever, it's like, "OK, as a community, yes, the male community is a little more geared towards buying into the early 20-something, beautiful body, taking my clothes off, strutting and selling the body as well as the music. And the women may not quite be there, but I can show you examples of that too. I don't think it's fair to say that one is achieving more the other, because what's the point in that comparison to begin with?
 (Another one of Len's creations, Nola Bywater) |
LR: (Laughs) What I'm trying to promote here is the concept of networking, where we all support each other, and let people know what resources are out there, and when you write me and go, "Why can't my song or my CD be on the Top 40 list?', but you won't put a link on your website that says "Vote for me at OutVoice", then it's kind of like "Well, what do I do with that question?" And that's really what it's all about. We do the interviews and CD release parties and things like that through Rainbow World Radio, and I just now had to actually make it a rule that if you don't promote the show, I won't play it. That's the whole point, to get your listeners to tune in. Because, these are usually like what we're doing now: hour-long conversations with the artists. I just say, "OK, what do you want to talk about?" and that's where we go. So, it's their chance to be personal. But as a community, that is the sad part: We don't support ourselves in a lot of areas the way we should. Not just OutVoice, but in a lot of areas.
JR: Yeah! Well, let the reader start now: On a day-to-day basis-- like brushing your teeth-- what can the average Joe or Joan do to make life better for the GLBTI community?
LR: To support gay art? Is that what you're asking?
JR: Well, I know that art and politics are very closely tied together, so...
LR: If you live in the United States or wherever you live, do the process: Be registered, get off your butt, and vote. That's the main thing. Even if I don't like who you voted for, at least you're being a part of the process. Too many of us sit home, too many of us say, "Ah, my vote doesn't count..." You know, armchair activism is one of the strongest things on earth.
JR: People think armchair activism doesn't work. They think that they can't make a difference. But they won't even try the simplest steps, which is maybe writing a letter, you know?
LR: Well, some people don't like to write, not everybody is comfortable with a microphone, not everybody is an Aries! (Both laugh... we're both Aries!) Not everyone is comfortable making an ass out of themselves in public for what they believe in. And I've certainly done that, and don't mind doing it. It's not a problem. And that's OK. We don't all need to be the same. But if we all vote, if we all take the time to do that, that's the one thing. We've got to accept at some point in time that yes, we want to make things better for the queer community, but we have to ultimately get to the point where we make things better for people, period. It's about human equality. If we get to the point where all humans are equal, then we don't have to worry about gay rights. It will be there to take care of itself. And the longer we divide ourselves up into gay rights, and male rights, and black rights, and women's rights, then we're doing the same thing our community is doing with the gay rights versus lesbian versus bisexual versus transgendered. And we're not getting in the common ground. So first, change your train of thought: If it's good for the gay community, it should also be good for the world. And vice versa. On the musical or artistic side, the easiest thing to do is: just be aware of what's out there. Tell people. Share it. I'm not saying go buy it. I'm not saying stop buying Barbra Streisand and Liza Minnelli and Madonna albums. That's not what it's about. It's about an awareness. Know that the music is out there. Share it with people. Let them know, "Hey, I found this website. This artist is cool!" That's conversational. It's not being an activist. It's just being aware; opening up your mind to what's out there past the chatroom at Gay.com.
JR: I agree!
LR: We just do too much of that. And that frustrates me, because we had a large resource network that we work with for artists, and typically when I get into the big guys like Gay.com and the Advocate and Planet Out-- and actually, The Advocate editor told me that if you're not between 18 and 26 and really, really, really good-looking, it's hard for them to sell, so that's why they're focused there. And that really sucks. So, you've gotta find different ways to do it. A lot of the artists right now feel the key to success is "Can I get on LOGO? Can I get on Gay.com?", and I'm like, "Well, OK, I don't think being on Gay.com is the zenith to a career!"
JR: (Laughs) It's especially funny, because LOGO didn't even exist a few years ago.
LR: People complain that the community is not as loyal today as it was yesterday. Well, that's because us old fart activists didn't realize that if we did our job right, and if we did what we should have done back in the '70's and '80's, then eventually it's gonna be that these young queer kids are going out with their straight friends together, and they don't care if it's a gay bar or not. Thery're just going there with their friends. And that means that it's becoming more natural and normal, socially, to join together. And that's a wonderful thing, not a bad thing that we should be bashing young people about... I went off on a soapbox there!
JR: No! It's all related! Go on.
LR: Those are just simple things. Understanding, keeping an open mind... Yes, we have our opinions, but so do other people. And in this country, the wonderful thing about it is that they both should be able to voice them. But yeah: register to vote and share the resources. It's that simple. Being an armchair activist doesn't mean that you have to write thousands of letters and make phone calls and buy postage and wear a party-affiliated badge at all. It just means that you know kind of a little bit about what's going on, somewhat, about your world.
JR: Which new artists do you feel are worthy of discovery?
LR: Well, they all are!
JR: Good answer! (Laughs)
LR: Let's see... Jana Losey is a new artist-- dynamic, a beautiful voice. Actually, she just came from the West Coast to upstate New York a few months ago; Armstrong, Jr.; from the UK, Sue Merchant and Al Start-- a phenomenal singer; the Divys, a group here in the States that I think we're going to big things from...
JR: The Divys?
LR: Named after Divine's nickname! They're very good; also, there's a gentleman by the name of Andrew Suvalsky; Let's see... Lipstick Conspiracy has a new CD out; Robert German; Gregory Douglass from Vermont. Also from Vermont is Emily Nyman. Terry Christopher, Craymo, and D.C. Anderson have new CD's; soce the elemental wizard; I just completed an hour-and-a-half interview with Levi Kreis. He had his co-writer on their too, a young lady by the name of Darci Monet. His new CD comes out in January, called "The Gospel According to Levi". He's been kind enough to provide three tracks from the CD that will be world-premiering when we do the interview. The CD artwork is done by Joe Phillips. We have a lot of new literary artists coming in. We work with Hayworth Publishing, and we get on the average three to four books per month. That's why I'm so far behind! I'm looking at a two foot tall stack of books right now! Duane Simolke, who has won several Pride in the Arts Literary Awards, has a new book out. In the film industry, we've got several new films. Some documentaries that are very specific to the community, and some that are a little more broad-based, like "Frailty", because Levi Kreis is in it; he'll also be in "Don't Let Go", which is not yet released, but those now become eligible as far as Award factors go. So, that's kind of a new thing. The largest film to date that we were involved with on the Award level was "Testosterone", which was co-written by Dennis Hensley... Other artists in music: Elaine Elias; Luke Parkin; The Damsels; Joshua Klipp, an excellent trans-man who's a great dance artist... and Daphne Rubin-Vega just joined the promotion last week...
JR: Did she really? He's a super sweetheart. She does a lot of work for charity.
LR: Yeah, she sure does! Art Reyes ,who's a great jazz artist; Linq; Donny West; Michael Van London; Patrick Boothe; Ruben Butchard has a new CD... And now, we're branching into comedians: Sean Hollenbeck, Greg Walloch, Murray Hill. We're going to be looking into Rainbow World Radio opening some programming to the comedians, where we can start having audio comedy shows available soon to showcase that talent. And we're looking into spoken word artists, like Baron, and performance art that might translate well to radio.
JR: We don't get a lot of submissions who are going after "mainstream" recognition so much. This year we got "Farm Family" and "Almost Myself", which are really good documentaries. One of those was shown at Pride in the Arts. We've got a few mainstream films in the running, but Film is actually the newest sector, so that's the one that's growing. I'm OK with it not growing real fast, because the other areas are.
JR: If I was to nominate a "mainstream" movie, it would have to be something that was really about the community, and really spoke to the gay community, you know what I mean? Not just a movie by a director that was like, "Let's make a gay movie!" But then again, I saw the movie "Gay Sex in the '70's" and was very underwhelmed.
LR: People are like, "Visibility! We've got visibility! We're in the movies!" and I'm like, Well, I don't know if it's any better to be in the movies, but I've certainly seen my share of movies that were downright cheesy! (Laughs) Now we don't have the black exploitation movies, we've got the queer exploitation movies.
JR: We sure do!
LR: That's just as bad. I don't know that that's a good thing. I think visibility is good, but I don't think it's good just for the sake of it, you know? People are like, "Aren't the Pride in the Arts Awards hard for you, because we know you gotta have favorites?" I say, "Well, everybody's got favorites."... but it's actually very easy for me because I don't have to pick winners. All I have to do is count votes. I put it out there. There's no decision making process. We've had several artists who have actually tied, and they're like, "Well, who makes that decision?" I'm like, "Nobody does." If two artists tie-- it would be very unusual now because of the number of people voting-- but we did the first couple of years have ties. And if both artists are recognized as winning the Award, then why not? You shouldn't limit recognizing talent. That doesn't happen so much now because of the sheer numbers in voting. Last year, many of the people that were running for Awards, I honestly was very unfamiliar with! I'm like, "I gotta find out who these people are!" They've got a tremendous fan base, and they're voting, and then when you listen to the music, you're like, "Well, why didn't I hear this before?" John Paul Sharp had-- my goodness-- at least six CD's. Just as you think you're getting to the bottom of the well, then-- Wow! Here's this new insurgence of art. And you can see it. Like right now, people are doing e-mail link things, I imagine, because I'm getting every other day a letter from some place like Wales or Scotland or England or Australia. With the artists, it's not about the continent you live on. I like it because it's different, and I started this, and people are like, "Well, you shouldn't tell people that, Len ."... OK, my background is marketing, which technically is a trade. Today they would call me a media whore! (Both laugh) I'm OK with that. I started this as a marketing exercise. I was pissed off with what happened at the bar in New Orleans, and I was seeing people being charged outrageous prices to promote and market websites. I was like, "OK, here's something I believe in, let me see if I can do this without spending all this money to promote my website, whatever... and in that respect it was successful. StoneWall Society has maintained a #1 through #3 position on Google and OutVoice for our specific search terms for the last four years. And that was without spending $20,000 marketing my website. So there was that side of it too. And now that I have that, I can share with artists on how to get more hits, how to get search engines to list their sites appropriately... and how important it is to register their website on DMOZ. People don't realize that they should register their website there, because they are the base information for Google and Yahoo.
 Len Rogers |
 Gordon Smith, Danny from Longfork Campgrounds, Len Rogers, & Robert Urban (forefront) |
 Jed Ryan & Len Rogers |
LR: Because of Pride of the Arts, one of the record stores here in Charleston is wanting to carry the music of the musicians. We're trying to get that together to see how many musicians want to do that. They want to promote it as a GLBTI section.
JR: Who knew Charleston could be so fabulous? Wow!
LR: Well, I met my other half here in 1977, and it was always in my opinion the friendliest, most welcoming city I had ever lived in. As far as the history of West Virginia, the people moved here to get away from government. They didn't want it at their door making them do things and being involved in their lives daily. I'm sure there are rednecks and whatever here, but the general attitude I get is "Well, I don't care what you do as long as you don't want to do it in my living room." I'm OK with that really. They just had a horrible television campaign go on here where Focus on the Family came in and did this really, tacky cheesy commercial where you see what you think is a man and woman in the background, and then they start carrying on about homosexual activists and activist judges who are making a mockery of marriage, and the groom goes to lift the veil to kiss the bride and it's a guy. It's just cheesy, it's just really bad. And they took it off the air because the residents of Charleston wrote to the TV station and were like, "How dare you?" and "If this was about a black person you wouldn't dare show that!" The people did it. The reason we didn't have a huge turnout at Pride in the Arts was because the gay community was afraid that the rednecks were going to come out with their shotguns. And you were there. There were no demonstrations.
JR: I didn't get to explore Charleston as much as I wanted to, and that was largely because of my ex-boyfriend's histrionics and all that ...but from what I saw in the state, I felt very welcome. The closest I got to exploring was talking to a lot of the natives of West Virginia at the campgrounds. There was one nice Jewish guy in the pool with Hebrew letters tattooed on his arms-- I have no idea what his name was-- and I joked around about how he must be the only Jew in West Virginia. He was laughing. He was like, "I think you're right!"
LR: Well, we have a synagogue here.
JR: One synagogue!
LR: And we have one or two Catholic churches. I'm a recovered Catholic.
JR: Congratulations! Me too.
LR: It was weird; when I lived here before, nobody wanted to rent to me. They didn't care that I was gay, they didn't care that I had a queer lover, but they didn't want to rent to me because I was Catholic ... and I left, because I just couldn't handle that anymore ... but, Chris and I finally found common ground there. So, back to where the StoneWall Society is going next... We have the marketing thing going on at that store, to see how that's going to work, if that's something the artists want to tap into and use, and I have other stores that are eager or interested in talking about that; I just never pursued it because there are catalogs and people out there who do that sort of thing, but apparently not too many specific for our community. Pride in the Arts Festival will be going on again, this year in October, so that's gonna be a big thing.
JR: I can't wait. This time I'm going to stay on the campgrounds, and stay for a longer period of time ... and I'm going solo!
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